Lighting desk
Moderator: site mods
-
Spike
- ents crew
- Posts: 363
- Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:38 pm
- Location: Chem Labs / The Union
- Contact:
Lighting desk
Are the thespies buying their own lighting desk? if so what do people think we should do with the sirrius? maybe use it for band nights or something, and use the pearl for bops (using enigma as a back-up desk?)?
The only thing that was done to the sirrius was to unplug and replug the ribbon cables connecting the master and submaster fader boards to the cpu module. After that the only real problems, which had been the analog noise on all fader channels ( hints at it being a master fader issue) /random sets of channels remaining energized when all faders at 0 had vanished. A similar trick on the psu feeds to the main cu module on the pearl seemed to do the trick there too with the "possible +5v rail sag = crash" thing...unless that was someone looking at it earlier in the week.
Any how, aside from a little epoxy silicone on all the connectors, both desks were ok over the past week.
As to the enigma, it is the most resiliant desk we have, but personally I find it seems to have been designed purely to hand to button-pushing ops specifically to restrict deviation from pre-set light planning. Yes we can program it to get round a few of the differences in a limited fashion, but the number of things the enigma can't do that the pearl does almost by default means it's just a nicer experience to use the pearl instead.
Any how, aside from a little epoxy silicone on all the connectors, both desks were ok over the past week.
As to the enigma, it is the most resiliant desk we have, but personally I find it seems to have been designed purely to hand to button-pushing ops specifically to restrict deviation from pre-set light planning. Yes we can program it to get round a few of the differences in a limited fashion, but the number of things the enigma can't do that the pearl does almost by default means it's just a nicer experience to use the pearl instead.
Hi Andy,
What things can the pearl do which the enigma cannot? Maybe i will be able to help, although it has been a while since i used one.
Although you are indeed correct that it is primarily a club instsall console. This said it handled the 100 MH in Circus in Dundee rather nicely for me.
Chris
What things can the pearl do which the enigma cannot? Maybe i will be able to help, although it has been a while since i used one.
Although you are indeed correct that it is primarily a club instsall console. This said it handled the 100 MH in Circus in Dundee rather nicely for me.
Chris
Pigs do fly.
so does the enigma, by using a certain type of programing which i've forgoten the name of 
and i don't see how your comment on the pearl can really be true, since your program will be for one rig so will still need modifying for a changed rig (like any desk). And its jsut as easy to use the enigma for specials.
and i don't see how your comment on the pearl can really be true, since your program will be for one rig so will still need modifying for a changed rig (like any desk). And its jsut as easy to use the enigma for specials.
Heys Chris 
Well, first things first i guess :-
Pearl Mode 2 memories (IE, slider position sets memory attributes for size/speed/both). If the enigma can do this then yes, i'd probably move back to it.
While the enigma can without question control heads in large rigs individually it all has to be pre-planned. Using the octagon lx-spots ( replaced the spicas) as an example, sure I can make a program/overlay that sets the lamps to individual colours, but suppose I have a red and a blue set on two, and I decide I want them the opposite way round ( IE red->blue, blue->red) pearl makes this easy, but with the enigma i'd have to either re-write the program or bury into the console and then be unable to do anything else without losing control of the selected fixtures once you return to the main interface to carry on with the show.
Preset shapes :- the pearl gives microstep control of size, speed, neighbour and group offsets. The enigma does most of that ( ie shape offset) but size and speed are limited to either whats built in as the size of the movement or to fixed intervals (iirc 6% or so) for speed.
while this is "ok" in the sense that the lights will wave around and flash, it just adds to the clunky, function restricted feeling when using the desk. This is not helped by the braindead UI lockups that occur when trying to switch between desks at any speed. The number of times the "sorry dave, I can't allow you to do that" message comes up when trying to move desks because the enigma is in edit/select/something that isn't desk-select mode. And there doesn't seem to be any specific pattern to it as it gets on everyones nerves.
We were getting around to program vast swathes of columns as pearl-esq focuses, IE, per fixture-type gobo/focus/colour/gobo-rotate/prism etc overlays, and this did give a lot of the pearl functionality but it takes ages of specific programing whereas the pearl just does it as part of its base design.
As I said before, I can see the appeal of the enigma to its target audience for installers, venue techs and ops. The installer gets to sleep at night without the venue running up every 5 minutes complaining they have no desk as there will always be a workable config built in and locked down. The tech gets to grow and develop the range and variation of possible shows, and ops get to play without risking overwriting operation-critical settings. However, having run normal bop nights off both desks I just find the pearl a nicer desk to work with. This isn't a specific denigration of the enigma (edit - pearl...wtf) as a piece of equipment, I guess I just work more closely to the 'pearl' way of doing things than that of ALS.
The issue I think that spike is raising is the whole concept of function-class definitions. IE, that somehow a lamp or fixture is different from an otherwise identical lamp or fixture purely because of where in the rig its been put. This would work fine if the lamps never moved, but if the enigma was labelled according to the actual static classes, IE the type of fixture then the volatility of the rig becomes a moot point of programing. Either that or everyone who moves lamps needs to ensure that each device returns to the exact location it left.
blerf - what a lot of stuff, not a rant per-se, just my observations and attempts to explain.
Well, first things first i guess :-
Pearl Mode 2 memories (IE, slider position sets memory attributes for size/speed/both). If the enigma can do this then yes, i'd probably move back to it.
While the enigma can without question control heads in large rigs individually it all has to be pre-planned. Using the octagon lx-spots ( replaced the spicas) as an example, sure I can make a program/overlay that sets the lamps to individual colours, but suppose I have a red and a blue set on two, and I decide I want them the opposite way round ( IE red->blue, blue->red) pearl makes this easy, but with the enigma i'd have to either re-write the program or bury into the console and then be unable to do anything else without losing control of the selected fixtures once you return to the main interface to carry on with the show.
Preset shapes :- the pearl gives microstep control of size, speed, neighbour and group offsets. The enigma does most of that ( ie shape offset) but size and speed are limited to either whats built in as the size of the movement or to fixed intervals (iirc 6% or so) for speed.
while this is "ok" in the sense that the lights will wave around and flash, it just adds to the clunky, function restricted feeling when using the desk. This is not helped by the braindead UI lockups that occur when trying to switch between desks at any speed. The number of times the "sorry dave, I can't allow you to do that" message comes up when trying to move desks because the enigma is in edit/select/something that isn't desk-select mode. And there doesn't seem to be any specific pattern to it as it gets on everyones nerves.
We were getting around to program vast swathes of columns as pearl-esq focuses, IE, per fixture-type gobo/focus/colour/gobo-rotate/prism etc overlays, and this did give a lot of the pearl functionality but it takes ages of specific programing whereas the pearl just does it as part of its base design.
As I said before, I can see the appeal of the enigma to its target audience for installers, venue techs and ops. The installer gets to sleep at night without the venue running up every 5 minutes complaining they have no desk as there will always be a workable config built in and locked down. The tech gets to grow and develop the range and variation of possible shows, and ops get to play without risking overwriting operation-critical settings. However, having run normal bop nights off both desks I just find the pearl a nicer desk to work with. This isn't a specific denigration of the enigma (edit - pearl...wtf) as a piece of equipment, I guess I just work more closely to the 'pearl' way of doing things than that of ALS.
The issue I think that spike is raising is the whole concept of function-class definitions. IE, that somehow a lamp or fixture is different from an otherwise identical lamp or fixture purely because of where in the rig its been put. This would work fine if the lamps never moved, but if the enigma was labelled according to the actual static classes, IE the type of fixture then the volatility of the rig becomes a moot point of programing. Either that or everyone who moves lamps needs to ensure that each device returns to the exact location it left.
blerf - what a lot of stuff, not a rant per-se, just my observations and attempts to explain
.Hi Andy,
My this has made me put on my thinking hat.
The first issue, i think you can acheive with the slider panel. I assume you are talking about the size and speed of a shape being attached to a fader?
I am surprised you are seeing lockups when switching between pages. I never encountered this. It might indeed be time for a reinstall of software. You should contact ALS and ask if they can help with this.
I am not sure i understand the point about the colour changing, surely you have to either use the focuses or select the fixtures to change their colour in a Pearl.
Preset focuses- to be fair here, the pearls automatic preset focuses are pretty basic, do not include focus info and cannot be labelled. Once you set up the console once, you are done. The Hog III also has a very powerful auto palette generator, although i find myself storing most of my own stuff anyway.
With regards the last point, i am afraid you will have to enlighten me here as i am not sure i have understood. (i.e the one regarding moving of lamps)
I take your point of pre planning, however in my experience the best looking shows are always the ones which have been pre programmed. Shows on the fly are always more messy and can tend to look half baked. Undeniably if it comes to having to run a band on the fly then the Pearl is a better choice. Also in the case of the enigma (not of course when it takes ages to change page btu this is another issue) you have direct access to alot more scenes/cues/overlays and they can all be labelled.
This is not to say that i haven't got a few bug bears about the enigma.
The first is the patch, while powerful is arcane. It would be really nice to have a more friendly and easily accesible patch.
Second is i think that now there are so many moving fixtures on the market, it would be preferable to be able to not have select fixtures by type alone. It would be nice to be able to select fixtures from across the spectrum and edit them at once.
God i have realised that i have not used the console for far too long. Anyway finally i would of course suggest that you replace all three with a Hog as it is by far the most felxibe console there is. Naturally i am not biased!!!
Cheers
Chris
My this has made me put on my thinking hat.
The first issue, i think you can acheive with the slider panel. I assume you are talking about the size and speed of a shape being attached to a fader?
I am surprised you are seeing lockups when switching between pages. I never encountered this. It might indeed be time for a reinstall of software. You should contact ALS and ask if they can help with this.
I am not sure i understand the point about the colour changing, surely you have to either use the focuses or select the fixtures to change their colour in a Pearl.
Preset focuses- to be fair here, the pearls automatic preset focuses are pretty basic, do not include focus info and cannot be labelled. Once you set up the console once, you are done. The Hog III also has a very powerful auto palette generator, although i find myself storing most of my own stuff anyway.
With regards the last point, i am afraid you will have to enlighten me here as i am not sure i have understood. (i.e the one regarding moving of lamps)
I take your point of pre planning, however in my experience the best looking shows are always the ones which have been pre programmed. Shows on the fly are always more messy and can tend to look half baked. Undeniably if it comes to having to run a band on the fly then the Pearl is a better choice. Also in the case of the enigma (not of course when it takes ages to change page btu this is another issue) you have direct access to alot more scenes/cues/overlays and they can all be labelled.
This is not to say that i haven't got a few bug bears about the enigma.
The first is the patch, while powerful is arcane. It would be really nice to have a more friendly and easily accesible patch.
Second is i think that now there are so many moving fixtures on the market, it would be preferable to be able to not have select fixtures by type alone. It would be nice to be able to select fixtures from across the spectrum and edit them at once.
God i have realised that i have not used the console for far too long. Anyway finally i would of course suggest that you replace all three with a Hog as it is by far the most felxibe console there is. Naturally i am not biased!!!
Cheers
Chris
Pigs do fly.
Hi Chris, thanks for dropping by
Yes, the first point was about shape size+speed being controlled by a fader. The enigma does look at first glance like it should be able to operate in similar way to the pearl, hopefully with the same options to have the shape only use the slider setting for size or speed or both if needed. For the bop I prefer to keep sizes the same no matter what the speed as, to me, it looks better having large movements even at low speed rather than having the size increase with speed.
You're right, I didn't explain the pearl focuses properly. I set my own focuses the same as is needed on the enigma or even the hog-III. Having thought it through a second time, the issue I was trying to describe was that while the virtual console nature of the enigma means you can do a lot in a small space, the directly accesable physical switches and controls of the pearl makes it much more intuitive to operate.
I guess many of the 'issues' with the enigma are due to its configuration as opposed to the desk itself. If it was approached and programed in the same manner as a pearl or hog then we would most likely be able to use it that way too. (we did get a start on this using columns as groups of focuses, seemed to work rather nicely until odd things started getting jammed into single columns together due to space issues. Not a problem now the desk has been cleared...just needs doing now >.< )
IE programmed so that all 'programs' for any fixture are constructed of layers of movement/dimmer/shutter/colour/gobo/fx focuses rather than many unified programs that set all the functions at the same time, but need explicit programming in advance. While each column of focuses needs pre-programming using the desk to produce shows through additive layers rather than having to jump in to the fixture controller to remove unwanted settings.
As to the hog-III, I'm sure if there is a spare one lying around the back of the HE warehouse that we could find space in the venue to look after it for you
ttfn,
AndyR
Yes, the first point was about shape size+speed being controlled by a fader. The enigma does look at first glance like it should be able to operate in similar way to the pearl, hopefully with the same options to have the shape only use the slider setting for size or speed or both if needed. For the bop I prefer to keep sizes the same no matter what the speed as, to me, it looks better having large movements even at low speed rather than having the size increase with speed.
You're right, I didn't explain the pearl focuses properly. I set my own focuses the same as is needed on the enigma or even the hog-III. Having thought it through a second time, the issue I was trying to describe was that while the virtual console nature of the enigma means you can do a lot in a small space, the directly accesable physical switches and controls of the pearl makes it much more intuitive to operate.
I guess many of the 'issues' with the enigma are due to its configuration as opposed to the desk itself. If it was approached and programed in the same manner as a pearl or hog then we would most likely be able to use it that way too. (we did get a start on this using columns as groups of focuses, seemed to work rather nicely until odd things started getting jammed into single columns together due to space issues. Not a problem now the desk has been cleared...just needs doing now >.< )
IE programmed so that all 'programs' for any fixture are constructed of layers of movement/dimmer/shutter/colour/gobo/fx focuses rather than many unified programs that set all the functions at the same time, but need explicit programming in advance. While each column of focuses needs pre-programming using the desk to produce shows through additive layers rather than having to jump in to the fixture controller to remove unwanted settings.
As to the hog-III, I'm sure if there is a spare one lying around the back of the HE warehouse that we could find space in the venue to look after it for you
ttfn,
AndyR